Wednesday 29 April 1663
Up betimes, and after having at my office settled some accounts for my Lord Sandwich, I went forth, and taking up my father at my brother’s, took coach and towards Chelsey, ’lighting at an alehouse near the Gatehouse at Westminster to drink our morning draught, and so up again and to Chelsey, where we found my Lord all alone at a little table with one joynt of meat at dinner; we sat down and very merry talking, and mightily extolling the manner of his retirement, and the goodness of his diet, which indeed is so finely dressed: the mistress of the house, Mrs. Becke, having been a woman of good condition heretofore, a merchant’s wife, and hath all things most excellently dressed; among others, her cakes admirable, and so good that my Lord’s words were, they were fit to present to my Lady Castlemaine.
From ordinary discourse my Lord fell to talk of other matters to me, of which chiefly the second part of the fray, which he told me a little while since of, between Mr. Edward Montagu and himself, which is that after that he had since been with him three times and no notice taken at all of any difference between them, and yet since that he hath forborn coming to him almost two months, and do speak not only slightly of my Lord every where, but hath complained to my Lord Chancellor of him, and arrogated all that ever my Lord hath done to be only by his direction and persuasion. Whether he hath done the like to the King or no, my Lord knows not; but my Lord hath been with the King since, and finds all things fair; and my Lord Chancellor hath told him of it, but with so much contempt of Mr. Montagu, as my Lord knows himself very secure against any thing the fool can do; and notwithstanding all this, so noble is his nature, that he professes himself ready to show kindness and pity to Mr. Montagu on any occasion.
My Lord told me of his presenting Sir H. Bennet with a gold cupp of 100l., which he refuses, with a compliment; but my Lord would have been glad he had taken it, that he might have had some obligations upon him which he thinks possible the other may refuse to prevent it; not that he hath any reason to doubt his kindness. But I perceive great differences there are at Court; and Sir H. Bennet and my Lord Bristol, and their faction, are likely to carry all things before them (which my Lord’s judgment is, will not be for the best), and particularly against the Chancellor, who, he tells me, is irrecoverably lost: but, however, that he will not actually joyne in anything against the Chancellor, whom he do own to be his most sure friend, and to have been his greatest; and therefore will not openly act in either, but passively carry himself even.
The Queen, my Lord tells me, he thinks he hath incurred some displeasure with, for his kindness to his neighbour, my Lady Castlemaine. My Lord tells me he hath no reason to fall for her sake, whose wit, management, nor interest, is not likely to hold up any man, and therefore he thinks it not his obligation to stand for her against his own interest.
The Duke and Mr. Coventry my Lord says he is very well with, and fears not but they will show themselves his very good friends, specially at this time, he being able to serve them, and they needing him, which he did not tell me wherein.
Talking of the business of Tangier, he tells me that my Lord Tiviott is gone away without the least respect paid to him, nor indeed to any man, but without his commission; and (if it be true what he says) having laid out seven or eight thousand pounds in commodities for the place; and besides having not only disobliged all the Commissioners for Tangier, but also Sir Charles Barkeley the other day, who, speaking in behalf of Colonel Fitz-Gerald, that having been deputy-governor there already, he ought to have expected and had the governorship upon the death or removal of the former governor. And whereas it is said that he and his men are Irish, which is indeed the main thing that hath moved the King and Council to put in Tiviott to prevent the Irish having too great and the whole command there under Fitz-Gerald; he further said that there was never an Englishman fit to command Tangier; my Lord Tiviott answered yes, that there were many more fit than himself or Fitz-Gerald either. So that Fitz-Gerald being so great with the Duke of York, and being already made deputy-governor, independent of my Lord Tiviott, and he being also left here behind him for a while, my Lord Sandwich do think that, putting all these things together, the few friends he hath left, and the ill posture of his affairs, my Lord Tiviott is not a man of the conduct and management that either people take him to be, or is fit for the command of the place.
And here, speaking of the Duke of York and Sir Charles Barkeley, my Lord tells me that he do very much admire the good management, and discretion, and nobleness of the Duke, that whatever he may be led by him or Mr. Coventry singly in private, yet he did not observe that in publique matters, but he did give as ready hearing and as good acceptance to any reasons offered by any other man against the opinions of them, as he did to them, and would concur in the prosecution of it. Then we came to discourse upon his own sea accompts, and came to a resolution what and how to proceed in them; wherein he resolved, though I offered him a way of evading the greatest part of his debt honestly, by making himself debtor to the Parliament, before the King’s time, which he might justly do, yet he resolved to go openly and nakedly in it, and put himself to the kindness of the King and Duke, which humour, I must confess, and so did tell him (with which he was not a little pleased) had thriven very well with him, being known to be a man of candid and open dealing, without any private tricks or hidden designs as other men commonly have in what they do.
From that we had discourse of Sir G. Carteret, who he finds kind to him, but it may be a little envious, and most other men are, and of many others; and upon the whole do find that it is a troublesome thing for a man of any condition at Court to carry himself even, and without contracting enemys or envyers; and that much discretion and dissimulation is necessary to do it. My father staid a good while at the window and then sat down by himself while my Lord and I were thus an hour together or two after dinner discoursing, and by and by he took his leave, and told me he would stay below for me.
Anon I took leave, and coming down found my father unexpectedly in great pain and desiring for God’s sake to get him a bed to lie upon, which I did, and W. Howe and I staid by him, in so great pain as I never saw, poor wretch, and with that patience, crying only: Terrible, terrible pain, God help me, God help me, with the mournful voice, that made my heart ake. He desired to rest a little alone to see whether it would abate, and W. Howe and I went down and walked in the gardens, which are very fine, and a pretty fountayne, with which I was finely wetted, and up to a banquetting house, with a very fine prospect, and so back to my father, who I found in such pain that I could not bear the sight of it without weeping, never thinking that I should be able to get him from thence, but at last, finding it like to continue, I got him to go to the coach, with great pain, and driving hard, he all the while in a most unsufferable torment (meeting in the way with Captain Ferrers going to my Lord, to tell him that my Lady Jemimah is come to town, and that Will Stankes is come with my father’s horses), not staying the coach to speak with any body, but once, in St. Paul’s Churchyard, we were forced to stay, the jogging and pain making my father vomit, which it never had done before. At last we got home, and all helping him we got him to bed presently, and after half an hour’s lying in his naked bed (it being a rupture [with] which he is troubled, and has been this 20 years, but never in half the pain and with so great swelling as now, and how this came but by drinking of cold small beer and sitting long upon a low stool and then standing long after it he cannot tell) … —[We are not going to be told the treatment. D.W.]— [his bowells went up again into his belly, being got forth into his cod, as it seems is usual with very many men. – L&M] After which he was at good ease, and so continued, and so fell to sleep, and we went down whither W. Stankes was come with his horses. But it is very pleasant to hear how he rails at the rumbling and ado that is in London over it is in the country, that he cannot endure it.
He supped with us, and very merry, and then he to his lodgings at the Inne with the horses, and so we to bed, I to my father who is very well again, and both slept very well.
42 Annotations
First Reading
TerryF • Link
"sitting long upon a low stool and then standing long after it he cannot tell) . . . ."
L&M text: "sitting long upon a low stool and then standing long after it he cannot tell), his bowells went up again into his belly, being got forth into his cod, as it seems is usual with many men -- "
TerryF • Link
Medic!!
Is what afflicts John Pepys perhaps a description of an acquired indirect Inguinal Hernia, one that occurs later in life, and that may be associated with frequent straining at stools?
http://www.medem.com/medlb/articl…
JWB • Link
OR "...that may be associated with..."
interminable he-gossip.
Bradford • Link
Your diagnosis, Dr. Terry, seems spot on, though the condition can occur even in youth (he said, with feeling). And though this entry looks like a whopper it is, even with the excised passage reinstated, only 1671 words.
A. De Araujo • Link
Yes, rupture and hernia are one and the same.
dirk • Link
Sam's father in pain
"[My father] crying only: Terrible, terrible pain, God help me, God help me, with the mournful voice, that made my heart ake."
"my father, who I found in such pain that I could not bear the sight of it without weeping."
I find this very touching. It's one of those things that make Sam so human to us -- 350 years later.
Some of us may remember similar personal experiences...
dirk • Link
Montagu & the Duke of York
"Then we came to discourse upon his [Montagu's] own sea accompts, and came to a resolution what and how to proceed in them; wherein he resolved, though I offered him a way of evading the greatest part of his debt honestly, by making himself debtor to the Parliament, before the King’s time, which he might justly do, yet he resolved to go openly and nakedly in it, and put himself to the kindness of the King and Duke, which humour, I must confess, and so did tell him (with which he was not a little pleased) had thriven very well with him, being known to be a man of candid and open dealing, without any private tricks or hidden designs as other men commonly have in what they do."
Sam's view may not be completely accurate here! According to information gathered in the context of the "Pepys Sociogram"
http://www.pepysdiary.com/indepth…
the Duke of York and Montagu were not exactly friends. York was very jealous of Montagu and that never really subsided, although he was polite to him. But he envied Montagu for the favours bestowed on him by the King. King Charles knew James as the temperamental hot head that he was, and continued to reward Sandwich over him -- which must have been the underlying cause of the Duke's jealousy. (Jeannine, correct me if I have it wrong!)
Robert Gertz • Link
"...wherein he resolved, though I offered him a way of evading the greatest part of his debt honestly, by making himself debtor to the Parliament, before the King’s time, which he might justly do, yet he resolved to go openly and nakedly in it, and put himself to the kindness of the King and Duke, which humour, I must confess, and so did tell him (with which he was not a little pleased) had thriven very well with him, being known to be a man of candid and open dealing, without any private tricks or hidden designs as other men commonly have in what they do."
Hmm-hmmn.
"Maybe all the honest men are in jail." -Moe Howard (The Three Stooges)
***
dirk • Link
"Maybe all the honest men are in jail"
I'm reminded of of Mark twain's decription of an "ideal" state / government...
"a State where there is no fever of speculation, no inflamed desire for sudden wealth, where the poor are all simple-minded and contented, and the rich are all honest and generous, where society is in a condition of primitive purity and politics is the occupation of only the capable and the patriotic"
Robert Gertz • Link
Poor, poor Joha...
Perhaps watching his father's sufferings years before helped Sam make his resolution to go ahead with the surgery in '58. And I wonder if perhaps that suffering led John to sympathize with his eldest surviving son's and was a factor in urging him to push for an easier, educated profession for Sam. A bond, like their love of music, between father and son...
Paul Chapin • Link
Who is "her"?
" The Queen, my Lord tells me, he thinks he hath incurred some displeasure with, for his kindness to his neighbour, my Lady Castlemaine. My Lord tells me he hath no reason to fall for her sake, whose wit, management, nor interest, is not likely to hold up any man, and therefore he thinks it not his obligation to stand for her against his own interest."
Once again Sam has left unclear the antecedent of a pronoun, which in this case is crucial to understanding the story. Is Sandwich not falling and not standing for Castlemaine, or for the Queen? I'm thinking Castlemaine, but would welcome other views.
Roy Feldman • Link
"But it is very pleasant to hear how he rails at the rumbling and ado that is in London over it is in the country, that he cannot endure it."
It took me a while to parse this one. Here's my interpretation: "It's amusing to hear Dad complain about how loud it is in the city, compared to the country."
As someone who grew up in the 'burbs, but now lives in noisy Manhattan, I can certainly sympathize -- assuming I've got the meaning right. The phrase "over it is in the country" was particularly perplexing, and didn't even seem like proper English to me at first; I'm guessing it means "more so than it is in the country".
Any thoughts?
Pauline • Link
Who is “her”?
I took it to be the Queen.
With whom he has lost favor for being a friendly neighbor to Castlemaine. He is saying the Queen has no power to hurt or futher his own interests and he therefore hasn't the inclination to be the gallant to her honor.
Who is "he"?
Roy F. I think the "he" railing here is Stankes who is just into town with the horses. After amusing Sam with the railing , he sups with him, and then goes back to the "Inne with the horses" to sleep. "He" the father hangs around and sleeps with Sam.
TerryF • Link
"guessing [over it is in the country] means 'more so than it is in the country'."
Sounds right to me, Roy Feldman, though, like you I (from the 'burbs [of L.A.], to Manhattan for two years of noise 24/7 40 years ago) wouldn't say it that way.
language hat • Link
"her":
I took it to be Castlemaine, but who can tell for sure? A very poorly constructed sentence. Speaking of which, this one's a doozy:
"Talking of the business of Tangier, he tells me that my Lord Tiviott is gone away without the least respect paid to him, nor indeed to any man, but without his commission; and (if it be true what he says) having laid out seven or eight thousand pounds in commodities for the place; and besides having not only disobliged all the Commissioners for Tangier, but also Sir Charles Barkeley the other day, who, speaking in behalf of Colonel Fitz-Gerald, that having been deputy-governor there already, he ought to have expected and had the governorship upon the death or removal of the former governor."
Too many participles, too few clear referents! I get lost somewhere in the middle. Who laid out the money? Who disobliged all the Commissioners? This is what comes of trying to cram too much into a single entry before bedtime...
TerryF • Link
This AM in the House of Commons (Sirs Charles Barkeley, Wm. Penn, Mr. Coventry, et al.), a long-simmering issue was taken up:
Sectaries, &c.
A Letter, directed to the Lord Fanshaw, and subscribed by Mr. Willoughby, and several other Persons of Quality, of the County of Hertford, complaining of the frequent and numerous Conventions of Quakers, Anabaptists, and other Dissenters from the Church of England, was read.
Ordered, That a Committee be appointed, to peruse the Statute of 35° Eliz.; and to consider whether the same be defective, and wherein; and to provide such further Remedies and Expedients as they shall find necessary, against the Meetings and Conventions of Sectaries, Nonconformists, and Dissenters from the Church; viz. [45 named M's of P] : And they are to meet To-morrow at Two of the Clock in the Afternoon, in the Speaker's Chamber: And to send for Persons Papers, and Records.
From: 'House of Commons Journal Volume 8: 29 April 1663', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 8: 1660-1667 (1802), pp. 472-73. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…. Date accessed: 30 April 2006.
Todd Bernhardt • Link
And how about *this* doozy? Can anyone help me with this?
"And here, speaking of the Duke of York and Sir Charles Barkeley, my Lord tells me that he do very much admire the good management, and discretion, and nobleness of the Duke, that whatever he may be led by him or Mr. Coventry singly in private, yet he did not observe that in publique matters, but he did give as ready hearing and as good acceptance to any reasons offered by any other man against the opinions of them, as he did to them, and would concur in the prosecution of it."
Pedro • Link
A puzzle indeed, in the construction of the sentence, but I read it as refering to the Queen.
Leaving out a spoiler, Ollard has little to say about Castlemaine and Montagu except “Sandwich with his easy manners took trouble to remain on good terms with the King’s mistress”.
Taking the line “whose wit, management, nor interest, is not likely to hold up any man”
Castlemaine could be considered to have wit in the sense of ingenuity, she is certainly good at man management, and is followed by several men who think her power can carry them along. At this time we see how she is destroying Clarendon.
On the other hand the Queen certainly has wit in sense of intelligence, as Charles has noted. But I see her as having no management in the sense of being able to influence any matter, she is still struggling with the English language, and has very few friends that could be of interest to anyone seeking to have influence in the Court.
JWB • Link
“Maybe all the honest men are in jail", dirk
"Sectaries, &c.", TerryF
This is the 2d or 3d year John Bunyan has been in Bedford jail for preaching w/out a license. When ChasII asked Dr. John Owen why he listened to an uneducated tinker, he replied: "Could I possess the tinker's abilities for preaching, please your Majesty, I would gladly relinquish all my learning."(Wm. Barker, "Christianity Today", today.)
jeannine • Link
An overwhelming entry for sure, but here's some additional thougths from a few biographies. From Edward Mountagu 1st Earl of Sandwich, by F.R. Harris (vi, p242-244)
Background: "During the early part of 1663 he {Sandwich} was afflicted with a most severe illness, which cause his friends great anxiety, and brought about his withdrawl from Court, though business kept him near London. For the sake of fresher air, he exchanged his lodgings at Whitehall for a house at Chelsea. It was a pleasant journey by coach, and folk were tempted out there to drink the morning draught of ale, or they journeyed by river to take supper at some hostelry, and then sing on thir journey home and 'make sport with the bargees. Amid such surroundings Sandwich lived a quiet life, within reach of friends....The mistress of the house was a Mrs. Becke" (slight spolier, but please note that this Mrs. Becke is not to be confused with her daughter Betty Becke, who we will meet later.)...Thought my Lord's retirement at Chelsea was due in part to ill-health, it was also influenced by affairs. Sandwich had no great love for politics, and did not take any active part in political life. He saw that the Court was being rent by factions, and in disgust he withdrew. He had undoubtedly great hopes as to the healing results of the Restoration, and it was to him a bitter disappointment that quarrels now divided his friends. The question of the time was the settlement of religion; the Anglicans were opposed by the supporters of toleration, and while Sandwich's great friend, Clarendon, represented uniformity, his cousin, Lord Manchester, was the champion of the various creeds. Such sympathy as Sandwich had was on the side of moderation. He had propounded his ideas to Pepys; he believed in uniformity as a political solution, but when it came to a uniformity which was forced upon the people, Sandwich was mindful of the lessons of the Civil War."
In regards to Clarendon, Sandwich is starting to see the faction (Bennet/Bristol) moving against his friend. Sandwich will not betray his friend, however he is positioning himself away from the fray and will remain passive as that political movement begins to gather momentum. Although Sandwich might not seem the best of friends in remaining passive, he's probably astute enough to understand that there won't be much he can do to "help" Clarendon anyway. As Ollard tells us in "Clarendon and His Friends" "Like Ormonde, Mountagu had easy manners, a calm temper and a wife whose charms and kindness are attested by every scrap of evidence that survives, notably the Diary of the sharply critical Pepys. Created Earl of Sandwich at the Restoration, Mountagu was from that moment until the fall of the minister in 1667 reckoned a Clarendonian. It was not that he shared Hydes' religion -according to Pepys he was a sceptic--or the views of history, law and society derived from therefrom. He was not an intellectual, but again, like Ormonde, was a member of the ruling class whose instinct was to support government."(p. 224). Needless to say, Sandwich is perceived to be fully in Clarendon's camp by those people opposing Clarendon. No wonder Sandwich would have wanted Bennet to take the gold cup, so that he'd have at least some link into the "dark side" that might protect him later.
jeannine • Link
Fray between Mr. Edward Mountagu and Sandwich...From "The Way of the Montagues" by Bernard Falk
"In the spring of 1663 Montagu and Sandwich had a tiff [no mention as to what the tiff was about], and to aggravate matters 'the fool [from Sam's entry and quoted by Falk] complained to the Lord Chancellor that anything Sandwich had ever done had been by his direction and persuasion', a reference, presumably, to Montagu's success in winning over his cousin to the king's cause. Though, as was his habit, the impetuous young man later saw the error of his ways and hastened to make amends, it is doubtful whether the breach was ever properly healed" (p. 69)
jeannine • Link
"The Queen, my Lord tells me, he thinks he hath incurred some displeasure with, for his kindness to his neighbour, my Lady Castlemaine"
I believe that the references spoken about in the annotations above are about the Queen.
Sandwich had sided with the Queen early on in many ways, none of which have put him the good graces of the King. First, he took her from Portugal without the full dowry (which is a MAJOR sore spot as it still hasn't been delivered). Then he sided with her, on the morality of the issue, early in the "bedchamber" incident and was against Castlemaine. During the bedchamer fray, he started to move into a more "passive role" and started to back off when he realized that Castlemaine had the power over the King. Now, as things are starting to turn out, Castlemaine's power (in some respects) is growing as Charles has been with her (and not with his wife) for suppers over the last 3 months. During these "suppers" there is an enormous amount of politicking going on. Clarendon, would not be included in these suppers as Castlemaine HATES him, so she's got people like Bennett, Berkeley, etc. hanging out and is plotting ways to get rid of Clarendon and any others that may be a threat to their faction (Sandwich perhaps?). The Queen is on a slippery slope here also, as she has not conceived a child yet. Where she is now being thought to be barren, Sandwich (and even Clarendon) will be "blamed" for that too, even though they had no way of knowing this.
Sandwich has the perspective of an Englishman who can "see" into and in some ways "through" the Court movements of the time, Queen Catherine does not have the "wit, management, nor interest, is not likely to hold up any man" as she isn't a seasoned, power hungry, backbiting, politcal whore who derives her titles, position in Court and money from the King. It's not a matter of morality here, as Sandwich would side with the Queen on those types of issues and probably does, albeit SILENTLY. This is the public political "face" that Sandwich has to look out for and he needs to side with whoever will keep him in the good graces of the king. Although Castlemaine is a threatening political machine and, well let's face it, a wicked witch when it serves her, even with the King, she's by far someone who you'd rather have on your side than positioned against you. Sandwich is asserting his withdrawn and passive view by not siding with the Queen on the overall position of her role vs. that of Lady Castlemaine. This may be unfortunate for Catherine, but wise for Sandwich as the Queen has NO political influence, either perceived or real over Charles,period. She is not viewed as someone who adds life, zest or sexiness to the debauched Court life of the King, and clearly isn't among the "beautiful people" that make stunning (albeit superficial) impressions through their hot looks, witticisms, etc. Castlemaine, on the other hand at least has a perceived power over Charles. Now historians will debate if Charles actually let his mistresses influence him, but the Court perception is that they did, so Sandwich is siding with the perception and covering himself in the process. I think that this entry is more general in nature as opposed to a specific incident. Sandwich has been careful to be social and, as Pedro pointed out, polite to his neighbor, in order to protect his interests. In this Court, at this time, he's being wise in doing so.
jeannine • Link
"York was very jealous of Montagu and that never really subsided, although he was polite to him. But he envied Montagu for the favours bestowed on him by the King". Per Dirk's comment, this is true, although the sociogram is more "general" in nature and the relationships are fluid. At this time, and on current issues, at least Sandwich is feeling better about the public interactions with the Duke and Coventry. He also may be a little political here in his presentation of this to Sam, as he may be aware that Sam admires both the Duke and Coventry quite a bit. Better to say "good" things about the boss than not, especially when the factions are fighting.
Quite honestly, when reading this, no wonder Sandwich is "in retirement". I am sure if he could afford it (as we know money management is his character flaw), he'd probably be happier fully retired, out hunting in Hinchingbrooke and enjoying his family and letting the Court politics give heartburn to others.
jeannine • Link
My sympathies to John Sr. who seems to have had an overall lousy time while visiting Sam. Financial burdens, melancholy times and this illness. Poor man!
language hat • Link
Thanks for the enlightening quotes and comments, jeannine!
You've convinced me that "she" is the queen rather than Castlemaine (the Wicked Witch of Whitehall).
Pedro • Link
The Queen, my Lord tells me, he thinks he hath incurred some displeasure with, for his kindness to his neighbour, my Lady Castlemaine
For the Queen it would be particularly sad and disappointing to see Sandwich lavishing “kindness” on Castlemaine. He was probably one of very few non-papist friends that she had, and they had got on well since the first meeting in Lisbon. He had shown her great respect and friendliness especially during the tempestuous journey to England, when to distract and cheer her up, he came at night with his musicians, to play and sing at her door.
jeannine • Link
"And here, speaking of the Duke of York and Sir Charles Barkeley, my Lord tells me that he do very much admire the good management, and discretion, and nobleness of the Duke.."
From, "The King's Friend" (Charles Berkeley) by Cyril Hartmann who also notes this diary entry in respect to Berkeley...Hartmann addresses the issue of Berkeley's perceived vs. real power over Charles II...
"Pepys, or his informant, was undoubtedly exaggerating Berkeley's influence with the King: but it is, perhaps, understandable that outside observers should have been unable to divine that the young man's rapid rise to favour was due solely to the King's liking for him, and that personal favour did not necessarily bring with it any political influence. In political matters Charles II always knew his own mind and went his own way...The Duke of York was equally friendly with Sir Charles Berkeley, and Pepys never imagined that the Duke was allowing his friend to influence his decisions in political matters. Of this he had been assured by Lord Sandwich. 'Speaking of the Duke of York and Sir Charles Berkeley, my Lord tells me that he do very much admire the good management, and discretion, and nobleness of the Duke, that whatever he may be led by him or Mr. Coventry singly in private, yet he did not observe that in publique matters, but he did give as ready hearing and as good acceptance to any reasons offered by any other man against the opinions of them, as he did to them, and would concur in the prosecution of it.' He had, for instance, refused to endorse Berkeley's recommendation of Colonel Fitzgerald, the deputy governor of Tangier, to be the new Governor, and had instead put forth the name of Lord Teviot.
Nevertheless, even if he had little or no real political influence, Berkeley's private friendship with the King had to be taken into account, and he could not be altogether ignored by those whose business brought them into contact with His Majesty. The Marquis de Ruvingy, who had come over this summer (little spoiler outside of the diary) on a mission from France, gave Louis XIV a hint of this effect. 'Young Berkeley, of whom the King of England is at present very fond, has told me that your Majesty has sometimes spoken contemptuously of his master, and when I pressed him to speak more openly on the subject, he swore to me that the King of Enlgand knew nothing about it and that he alone had been told of it and would disapprove of my talking about it. I have thought myself obliged to tell your Majesty of this.'From now on Berkeley was set amongst those prominent personages at the Court of England whose actions and opinions were regularly reported to Louis XIV by the French envoys." (p 96-97)
Clearly, the issue of power, whether actual or perceived is causing quite an uncomfortable stir among the king's Court, as sides are being drawn.
In this case, the Duke is not perceived as being as easily influenced by the likes of Berkeley as is his brother the king.
Robert Gertz • Link
A sweeping political review to be sure but Sam hasn't had much chance to review things with cousin Ed recently.
It appears Montagu (Sandwich) had shown Castlemaine some kindnesses but has decided she is not likely to have much staying power with Charles in the long term and therefore he's out to mend fences with the irritated Catherine. His statements that he trusts York will stand by him and that York is his own man, not to be led by either Barkeley or Coventry sound a bit like whistling in the dark to reassure cousin Sam... Sandwich suspects things are slipping out of control at court and is keeping aloof...That may be wise if things go seriously against the King or it may lead to his (Sandwich) being resented by Charles and Jamie for not standing close. It's interesting Sandwich makes no reference as to his standing with Charles, as if he takes it for granted that Charles remains indebted and thankful. One wonders if Ed, successful a Commonwealth leader and skillful in manuevering at the Restoration as he was, fully appreciates just how crafty...And embittered...The brothers Stuart are.
A. Hamilton • Link
An Hypothesis
My first thought, on getting lost in the syntactical thickets of Sam's account of Sandwich's political tour de horizon, was that I should not have had that drink of Scotch (a peg of Ardbeg). Now that I see more sober minds have also lost their way in the wilderness of these words, a true selva oscura, I feel better, if still perplexed. My hypothesis is that Sam felt an urgent need to get down what Sandwich told him, but that his father's distress, here so acutely rendered, was what had really impressed him this day, and getting to it caused him to rush through the Sandwich bits without reviewing them for clarity.
Clement • Link
Speaking of difficult sentences..
"...her cakes admirable, and so good that my Lord’s words were, they were fit to present to my Lady Castlemaine."
That one made me gag for reasons other than construction.
When I try to imagine what ideal she represents in that analogy, "Lady Castlemaine is so ________ that I would only present her with the finest cakes to be found" I can't come up with anything not related to lechery to put in the blank. It seems very silly, and I appreciate Sam recording it.
Paul Chapin • Link
Many thanks to the company here assembled
for such a thorough and deep discussion of this difficult entry.
Since no one else has done so, let me take a stab at LH's problem sentence:
“Talking of the business of Tangier, he tells me that my Lord Tiviott is gone away without the least respect paid to him, nor indeed to any man, but without his commission; and (if it be true what he says) having laid out seven or eight thousand pounds in commodities for the place; and besides having not only disobliged all the Commissioners for Tangier, but also Sir Charles Barkeley the other day, who, speaking in behalf of Colonel Fitz-Gerald, that having been deputy-governor there already, he ought to have expected and had the governorship upon the death or removal of the former governor.”
What I think happened here was that Teviot laid out the 7 or 8K for supplies for Tangier, and in consequence was awarded the governorship (presumably by Charles or James), contrary to the wishes and expectations of the Commissioners for Tangier as well as Barkeley, who favored Fitz-Gerald for the post. So when Teviot set sail for Tangier, there weren't a lot of going-away parties.
I'm not sure about the "without his commission" bit; it might mean that he didn't have the official document when he left, but it might also mean something to the effect that the commission was the only thing about Teviot that people could respect.
A. Hamilton • Link
Queen or Castlemaine?
My moral symapthies (led by Jeannine) are with the Queen, so I would wish that Sandwich is, as Robert Gertz suggests, seeing through Castlemaine and anticipating her decline. But Sandwich is deeply in debt to the Navy and has decided to throw himself on the generosity of King and Duke. He had hopes of solidifying the friendship of a court favorite, Bennet,through the gift of a gold cup. He knows that the Portuguese haven't paid the Queen's dowry and that the King is openly shunning her. It would be
gratifying to think that the words "whose wit, management, nor interest, is not likely to hold up any man" refer to a Castlemaine of declining power. But (especially because of the reference of lucious cakes fit, not for a Queen, but for Castlemaine) I accept that the referent is the Queen. Sandwich is not going to risk any chance of offending the King, or the powers at court.
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"my Lord Tiviott is gone away without the least respect paid to him, nor indeed to any man, but without his commission"
The commission was issued finally on 2 May. His instructions had been drafted on 27 April. (L&M footnote)
Terry Foreman • Link
Methinks it is Will Stankes who finds city noise so unendurable. He supped with the Pepyses, Pepys's father is abed.
"whither W. Stankes was come with his horses. But it is very pleasant to hear how he rails at the rumbling and ado that is in London over it is in the country, that he cannot endure it. He supped with us, and very merry, and then he to his lodgings at the Inne with the horses, and so we to bed, I to my father who is very well again, and both slept very well."
Bill • Link
"But I perceive great differences there are at Court; and Sir H. Bennet and my Lord Bristol, and their faction, are likely to carry all things before them (which my Lord’s judgment is, will not be for the best), and particularly against the Chancellor, who, he tells me, is irrecoverably lost."
Bennet and Bristol do not carry all things before them, and the Chancellor is not lost.
The earl of Bristol's friendship with Clarendon, which had subsisted, with great intimacy, during their exile and the distresses of the royal party, had been considerably impaired since the restoration, by the chancellor's refusal of his assent to some grants, which Bristol had applied for to a court lady: And a little after, the latter nobleman, suitable to the impetuosity and indiscretion of his temper, broke out against the minister in the most outrageous manner. He even entered a charge of treason against him before the House of Peers; but had concerted his plan so imprudently, that the judges, when consulted, declared, that, neither for its matter nor its form, could it legally be received. The articles indeed resemble more the incoherent altercations of a passionate enemy, than a serious charge, fit to be discussed by a court of judicature; and Bristol himself was so ashamed of his conduct and defeat, that during some time he absconded. Notwithstanding his fine talents, his eloquence, his spirit, and his courage, he could never regain the character, which he lost by this hasty and precipitant measure.
---The History of Great Britain. David Hume, 1759.
Bill • Link
“and arrogated all that ever my Lord hath done to be only by his direction and persuasion”
To ARROGATE, to claim or challenge, to take upon one's self, to assume too much to one's self, to boast.
---An universal etymological English dictionary. N. Bailey, 1724.
john • Link
No mention of whether Pepys Pere ate of the meat on the table, as food poisoning comes to mind. It seems once the toxin-producers were vacated, matters improved.
Louise Hudson • Link
Re: all thise ungrammatical and confusing sentences-- they are ungrammatical and confusing only from our point of view 400-500 years after they were written. But keep in mind, we are reading diary entries Sam never intended for public view. Presumably he knew what the sentences meant and he intended to be the only reader of them when he wrote them. We are the underhanded snoops and voyeurs and have no moral right to complain about his sentences or to speculate on the validity of his thoughts. (I admit I'm as guilty of snooping as anyone, but I try not to be overly critical.)
mountebank • Link
A terrific entry, despite it having a bad case of Pronoun Hell.
It's often difficult to have a clear sense of the relationship between Sam and my Lord but as we can see here Sam is in a position of real trust.
For me this is one of those entries that, while reading it, shifts my perspective of characters in the diary and their relationships. It's this sense of discovery and re-interpretation of "known" things that is one of the joys of the diary.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... which Bristol had applied for to a court lady: ..."
I suspect a typo ... probably should read "applied for to court a lady:"
Gerald Berg • Link
Thanks to all for a very fun and sinuously interpretive annotation!
Can't be sudden onset OCD IMO. I assume the ruler is the timber ruler on which he now rules! It mustn't seem unruly, that just won't do.
Rather, a control freak trapped in the age of Lords with King over riding, must control what he may be allowed to control.
Terry Foreman • Link
"I offered him [Sandwich] a way of evading the greatest part of his debt honestly, by making himself debtor to the Parliament, before the King’s time, which he might justly do, yet he resolved to go openly and nakedly in it, and put himself to the kindness of the King and Duke,"
L&M: He owed £1200: https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… The restored monarchy honored the debts owed by the revolutionary governments. The Duke's orders for the making out of bills on Sandwich's accounts were issues on 29 and 30 May: BL, Add. 9314, f. 5r. For the payments, see PRO, Adm. 20/4, pp. 248-9, 251.